tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post2704018757972357368..comments2024-03-28T05:13:13.921-04:00Comments on Books, Inq. — The Epilogue: Deep ...Frank Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18410473158808750903noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-81380577767067705402008-12-16T07:37:00.000-05:002008-12-16T07:37:00.000-05:00KevDog: Given your statement, "Writing is not a m...KevDog: Given your statement, "Writing is not a matter of talent, it is matter of practice," could you please prove this by practising a tad and producing, after some practice, a poem of the exact same calibre as, say, let's make this easy, shall we?<BR/><BR/>How about eight lines that shimmer with the practice of anything inked by Keats (since, clearly, he died at 26 and so, he didn't have all that many years of practice under his belt — sash? — as many other practitioners of the art and craft of poetry, those poets who practised, I mean, not the ones with talent, according to your paradigm. I dunno. Let's see, how about a week?<BR/><BR/>I bet you could practise for a week and come back with a poem such as "Ode on a Grecian Urn" (since, you know, it's not an overly long piece of practice writing, right?). Great! TIA.Judith Fitzgeraldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15630731762216185341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-81388363166926789132008-12-15T13:50:00.000-05:002008-12-15T13:50:00.000-05:00Do you know how many kids are taught math and scie...Do you know how many kids are taught math and science by teachers who dont have degrees in the subject?When my son was in ca. in 9th grade his math teacher had her degree in history,he would correct her applications.Why would anyone with a degree in math or science teach with what we pay them?Why dont we start there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-84044160167452857482008-12-15T11:28:00.000-05:002008-12-15T11:28:00.000-05:00Tenure is not "basically automatic!" Read the post...Tenure is not "basically automatic!" Read the posts above that explain how tenure is achieved. It also does not prevent a teacher for being fired for cause; it just gives teachers the right to a hearing so they can't be fired arbitrarily by a vindictive or poor administrator. How many employees in the private sector have no recourse beyond their immediate supervisor? Tenure attempts to address the problem of a single administrator being judge and jury over the teachers' careers. That's all it does.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05121936878305529087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-12206547079701384212008-12-15T05:59:00.000-05:002008-12-15T05:59:00.000-05:00I have to agree with others here that you've entir...I have to agree with others here that you've entirely missed the point of Gladwell's article. As you describe, he just says, "Gosh, you just can't figure out good pro quarterbacks from their college careers. You know, it's the same with teaching!"<BR/>The point of his article is to find a solution to this problem, so he looks at the world of finance, where there is an extensive system of evaluation for incoming traders. The article was actually making an important point that the way we currently hire teachers with certain qualifications and hand out tenure basically automatically is based on a set of faulty assumptions about what makes a good teacher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-67862273473052472342008-12-15T02:02:00.000-05:002008-12-15T02:02:00.000-05:00As a teacher I can tell you all that the reason wh...As a teacher I can tell you all that the reason why tenure is so important is because of current district policies towrds the employment of administrators.<BR/>administrators don't always care who is effective at getting kids to learn because they are concerned with, first, their own job security. Administrators do not have tenure; they are basically "at will" employees of the district office, and as such tend to be more concerned with keeping things steady and problem free. <BR/>The problem is that teachers who are effective must often push the envelope of expectations and experiment with alternative assessments and other pedagological approaches. This can frighten administrators, who because of the nature of their job security, have a vested interest in maintaining staus quo or in not getting questioned by their bosses at the district level.<BR/>Without tenure, many effective teachers would stand a large chance of being fired, as it is usually the bad teachers who tend to fly under the radar and avoid trying to excel in their jobs.<BR/>Tenure should probably be renewable at certain stages and years, but if one should lose tenure, and then go to another district, one literarly has to start over from square one in both pay and seniority and pension. Belive nme, statistics that show average teacher pay is 50K are not showing the 27K - 30K entry level pay, which can last for years.<BR/>This is, of course, my own humble opinion, and is based only on my own experience as a teacher, and I'm sure many others probably may differ.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-30581790958930776752008-12-14T19:48:00.000-05:002008-12-14T19:48:00.000-05:00The post about the rigorous vetting process teache...The post about the rigorous vetting process teachers go through highlights one of the problems of selecting teachers. The goals of the school may not be congruent with the educational needs of the children.<BR/><BR/>My impression of the vetting process in my neighborhood is that it produces seemingly dynamic teachers who get along well with parents and are very good at controlling classes. Are they any good at educating kids? That's anybody's guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-3769436825826184912008-12-14T15:59:00.000-05:002008-12-14T15:59:00.000-05:00Hi KevDog,I really don't think you can factor tale...Hi KevDog,<BR/>I really don't think you can factor talent out of the equation. Even if you have talent, you need to practice. And I am not talking merely of the mechanics of writing. Yes, practically anyone can learn to write correctly. Talent is that something extra that you either have or don't. The same holds true for teaching.Frank Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410473158808750903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-74585764302274582872008-12-14T15:57:00.000-05:002008-12-14T15:57:00.000-05:00Hi Evan,I was commenting only on the article, in w...Hi Evan,<BR/>I was commenting only on the article, in which Gladwell ceratinly draws an analogy between teaching and pro quarterbacking. The latter he says cannot be predicted. He then says the former has a quarterback problem, which to me means you can't predict whether teachers will be any good before they actually start teaching. Then he serves as a way of predicting a system that amounts to observation, not prediction. So I think his argument is poorly framed.<BR/>That said, I, too, like the idea of a teaching apprenticeship, an overhaul of tenure, etc.Frank Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18410473158808750903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-38608553820451206242008-12-14T15:15:00.000-05:002008-12-14T15:15:00.000-05:00Writing is not a matter of talent, it is matter of...Writing is not a matter of talent, it is matter of practice. There is a curiously Western belief that success is predicated on talent and not hard work which is covered at length in Gladwell's book.<BR/><BR/>And as to the matter of tenure. It absolutely needs to be overhauled. Tenure grants near irrevocable job-security at the average tender age of 27. After which the teacher needs to commit a felony to lose their job.<BR/><BR/>At a minimum, tenure needs to be renewable, say every seven years. Maybe few bad teachers get through the initial screening, but there is no recourse if they become a bad teacher later in their career.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-50119132635868346772008-12-14T14:04:00.000-05:002008-12-14T14:04:00.000-05:00Teachers do audition, it's called "student teachin...Teachers do audition, it's called "student teaching" and it's required to get a credential, at least it is in California. Not only is the teacher auditioning for at least two master teachers, the advisor for the education department where the teacher is earning his/her degree observes the teacher and critiques him/her. If the teacher makes it past the student teaching phase and is lucky enough to land a job, he/she is required to work for three years in that district without a contract. At any time during that three years, the teacher can be let go for any reason. Not until the end of the three years is the teacher offered tenure from the district on the recommendation of the administration (school principal) who has observed that teacher in the classroom over the years. <BR/><BR/>These requirements are much more stringent than any private sector job I've ever held where the longest probationary period was six months. <BR/><BR/>Sure bad teachers can slip through the cracks, but that isn't as rampant as many people seem to believe. Teachers who aren't offered a contract and tenure can wander from district to district for years. But a tenured teacher has earned the position with the support of master teachers, adivisors, and administration. I'm skeptical that a large number of bad teachers are getting through this rigorous screening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-84561125440918307042008-12-14T12:59:00.000-05:002008-12-14T12:59:00.000-05:00I think you missed an important part of the articl...I think you missed an important part of the article, Frank. First, it's not so obvious that we can't predict who will be a good teacher. Our current system seems set up on the assumption that we can--by stressing academic credentials, for example. But Gladwell also argues that this fact should lead to an overhaul of the education system. He proposes an apprentice system for teachers, an overhaul of the tenure system, and a big salary increase for outstanding teachers. These seem like pretty good ideas to me. What do you say?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-11752634406206609482008-12-14T12:22:00.000-05:002008-12-14T12:22:00.000-05:00That's the point. You can't tell until you see the...That's the point. You can't tell until you see them in action. And once you see how bad they are, they need to be fired. Applied to the Ryan Leafs and Tim Couches for QBs. And applies to the awful teachers out there now. It's time to have more stringent standards for tenure and pay based on quality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-70438180181797667042008-12-12T15:43:00.000-05:002008-12-12T15:43:00.000-05:00Heh heh, I like the length of your post! Gladwell,...Heh heh, I like the length of your post! Gladwell, shove over.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770069472552779217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10178279.post-86978889902132658652008-12-12T13:37:00.000-05:002008-12-12T13:37:00.000-05:00Correctly said.a person may be highly intelligent ...Correctly said.a person may be highly intelligent but may be poor teacher.teaching capability like art is inherent.<BR/><A HREF="http://mahmoodsyedfaheem.blog.co.in" REL="nofollow">THE DYNAMIC NATURE</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com