I think America as an imperial entity has more in common with ancient Greece than ancient Rome. Its hegemony has as much to do with jeans and pop music as with ships and planes.
That may be true, but having all those aircraft carrier battle groups and stealth fighters and bombers doesn't hurt and they look awfully Roman in intent.
So while it maybe more nobler to be passing out hegemony as TV shows and corporate logos on hamburgers, it's backed up by threat. In the form of predator drones patrolling and combat infantry securing green zones in the middle of a country we had no real reason for invading.
America shouldn't project the image of bully. It doesn't sit right. And stretching 9/11 over the posture just makes Americans look corrupt or stupid.
I for one, don't like it that we've let our fear distort our image to other countries of the world into that of corrupt, stupid bullies. It's not a good way to run an empire, right?
America is destined for better deeds. It is our unparalleled glory that we have no reminiscences of battle fields, but in defense of humanity, of the oppressed of all nations, of the rights of conscience, the rights of personal enfranchisement. Our annals describe no scenes of horrid carnage, where men were led on by hundreds of thousands to slay one another, dupes and victims to emperors, kings, nobles, demons in the human form called heroes. We have had patriots to defend our homes, our liberties, but no aspirants to crowns or thrones; nor have the American people ever suffered themselves to be led on by wicked ambition to depopulate the land, to spread desolation far and wide, that a human being might be placed on a seat of supremacy.
-John O'Sullivan, 1839
Now there's a guy that never met anyone named Bush, right?
Manifest Destiny was a convenient 19th century doctrine that helped power hungry men find their way to high office and pushed us into a war with Mexico. Worked out well in the 19th .. for Polk, right? But bringing it into the 21st with incompetents like Dubya leading the way, it's a disaster! Well, must be because O'Sullivan was a democrat.
Frank, you were a Polk supporter way back then, huh?
Yes, I am a lifelong Polk supporter, too. Said what he was going to do, including having only one term, did it, then went home and died. I have no illusions about the United States being somehow Simon-pure in its policies and motives. I just don't think it's any worse than any other countries have been and in most ways noticeably better. Moreover, there is a reason nations have armies and navies. And what those armies and navies do is wage war. And war, as the late Homer among many, many others made plain, is a nasty business. It is also, more often than many care to admit, a necessary business. One of the things that amazes me is how angry and cranky and disenchanted those who preach peace seem to be. Like they're always spoiling for a fight.
Though ancient Greece brings to mind culture in the positive sense. Modern America brings to mind culture in the idiotic sense, coupled of course with the militaristic vicious imperialism of Rome. Arthus Silber recently wrote: Arthur Silber: The Bush administration has announced to the world, and to all Americans, that this is what the United States now stands for: a vicious determination to dominate the world, criminal, genocidal wars of aggression, torture, and an increasingly brutal and brutalizing authoritarian state at home. That is what we stand for." More like the idea of Rome than Greece.
One would hardly make particularly grand claims for the spread of a MacDonalds, brainwashing tv culture, which is the parallel being made with Greece, surely. We could mention figures like Jimi Hendrix, Dylan, etc but they were very much counter the elites at the imperialist centre. One could then possinbly argue that Socrates in his day was sentenced to death, so maybe we should always be guarded againt eh deulded patriotism where human dignity sacrifices itself at the altar of the falsest of gods.
A million dead Iraqis, orphans, people polluted with depleted uranium, etc might argue about the jeans & milkshakes notions also. Or remember that child with his legs and arms blown off, wondering with the face of absolute depsair why the Americans did this to him? "We did it for your own good, son. It's the spread of democracy." "Abu Ghraib? Think of the jeans and brain-washed millions gazing at American Idol at home. We're torturing for them."
I stand by the last two sentences in my previous comment. It is, of course, anyone's right to detest the U.S. - as several of the commenters obviously do (see cultural references). I happen to like my native country for the most part, and obviously a lot of the things that the commenters detest appeal to people around the world. Of course, those people probably aren't intellectuals like the commenters.
And I stand by the words of John O'Sullivan. There's a particularly nasty debate coming in the next few months. And the labels will pile high and there will be more acid in the air to go around than anybody should have to witness.
The USA has some decisions to make about who we are, what we'll stand for to be done in our name. All that has to be done to set our image of ourselves back to what we think it should be is to vote.
If we're not bullies, we're not and it will come out right. I think we'll come out right. I mean, we always have before.
That may be true, but having all those aircraft carrier battle groups and stealth fighters and bombers doesn't hurt and they look awfully Roman in intent.
ReplyDeleteSo while it maybe more nobler to be passing out hegemony as TV shows and corporate logos on hamburgers, it's backed up by threat. In the form of predator drones patrolling and combat infantry securing green zones in the middle of a country we had no real reason for invading.
America shouldn't project the image of bully. It doesn't sit right. And stretching 9/11 over the posture just makes Americans look corrupt or stupid.
I for one, don't like it that we've let our fear distort our image to other countries of the world into that of corrupt, stupid bullies. It's not a good way to run an empire, right?
-blue
Blue, I'm with you.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm a lifelong advocate of Manifest Destiny myself.
ReplyDeleteThanks for linking, Frank. I am with you on the cultural import of American products. Like I once said on your blog, America is a state of mind.
ReplyDeleteAmerica is destined for better deeds. It is our unparalleled glory that we have no reminiscences of battle fields, but in defense of humanity, of the oppressed of all nations, of the rights of conscience, the rights of personal enfranchisement. Our annals describe no scenes of horrid carnage, where men were led on by hundreds of thousands to slay one another, dupes and victims to emperors, kings, nobles, demons in the human form called heroes. We have had patriots to defend our homes, our liberties, but no aspirants to crowns or thrones; nor have the American people ever suffered themselves to be led on by wicked ambition to depopulate the land, to spread desolation far and wide, that a human being might be placed on a seat of supremacy.
ReplyDelete-John O'Sullivan, 1839
Now there's a guy that never met anyone named Bush, right?
Manifest Destiny was a convenient 19th century doctrine that helped power hungry men find their way to high office and pushed us into a war with Mexico. Worked out well in the 19th .. for Polk, right? But bringing it into the 21st with incompetents like Dubya leading the way, it's a disaster! Well, must be because O'Sullivan was a democrat.
Frank, you were a Polk supporter way back then, huh?
-blue
"Frank's so much older than he looks."
Yes, I am a lifelong Polk supporter, too. Said what he was going to do, including having only one term, did it, then went home and died.
ReplyDeleteI have no illusions about the United States being somehow Simon-pure in its policies and motives. I just don't think it's any worse than any other countries have been and in most ways noticeably better. Moreover, there is a reason nations have armies and navies. And what those armies and navies do is wage war. And war, as the late Homer among many, many others made plain, is a nasty business. It is also, more often than many care to admit, a necessary business. One of the things that amazes me is how angry and cranky and disenchanted those who preach peace seem to be. Like they're always spoiling for a fight.
>"Frank's so much older than he looks."<<
ReplyDelete'Tis true, beau blue; but, he's younger than that now <*G*> . . .
Though ancient Greece brings to mind culture in the positive sense. Modern America brings to mind culture in the idiotic sense, coupled of course with the militaristic vicious imperialism of Rome.
ReplyDeleteArthus Silber recently wrote:
Arthur Silber:
The Bush administration has announced to the world, and to all Americans, that this is what the United States now stands for: a vicious determination to dominate the world, criminal, genocidal wars of aggression, torture, and an increasingly brutal and brutalizing authoritarian state at home. That is what we stand for."
More like the idea of Rome than Greece.
One would hardly make particularly grand claims for the spread of a MacDonalds, brainwashing tv culture, which is the parallel being made with Greece, surely. We could mention figures like Jimi Hendrix, Dylan, etc but they were very much counter the elites at the imperialist centre. One could then possinbly argue that Socrates in his day was sentenced to death, so maybe we should always be guarded againt eh deulded patriotism where human dignity sacrifices itself at the altar of the falsest of gods.
ReplyDeleteA million dead Iraqis, orphans, people polluted with depleted uranium, etc might argue about the jeans & milkshakes notions also. Or remember that child with his legs and arms blown off, wondering with the face of absolute depsair why the Americans did this to him?
ReplyDelete"We did it for your own good, son. It's the spread of democracy."
"Abu Ghraib? Think of the jeans and brain-washed millions gazing at American Idol at home. We're torturing for them."
I stand by the last two sentences in my previous comment. It is, of course, anyone's right to detest the U.S. - as several of the commenters obviously do (see cultural references). I happen to like my native country for the most part, and obviously a lot of the things that the commenters detest appeal to people around the world. Of course, those people probably aren't intellectuals like the commenters.
ReplyDeleteAnd I stand by the words of John O'Sullivan. There's a particularly nasty debate coming in the next few months. And the labels will pile high and there will be more acid in the air to go around than anybody should have to witness.
ReplyDeleteThe USA has some decisions to make about who we are, what we'll stand for to be done in our name. All that has to be done to set our image of ourselves back to what we think it should be is to vote.
If we're not bullies, we're not and it will come out right. I think we'll come out right. I mean, we always have before.
-blue